Hmmm since I had been name-checked here, I guess I should put in my two cents worth. Osakarob has very good points. For me, it all boils down to a matter of personal preference. Each wrestler chooses whom he wants to wrestle. I go to places with a lot of wrestlers, such as London or Berlin, and still I end up with few matches, sometimes none. But I don't generalize about Western characteristics. Simply put, I am just not their type to wrestle. For each new wrestler that I manage to meet, there were a lot more rejections or ignored messages. So don't worry, this does not just happen in Asia. It is the same everywhere.
Rob, meeting opponents online and arranging somewhere private to fight is more or less 'underground'. The word also gives it a more adventurous, edgy feel; such as underground music etc. I didn't actually mean we'd climb down into a tunnel and scrap!! Anyway, I hope to get over to Osaka before long. How is the wrestling scene there?
I lived in Osaka for sixteen years, but moved back to the US about five years ago. My experience with Japan's "underground" wrestling community was, generally speaking, quite positive. I've got some friends there who I have wrestled with -on and off- for a decade or more.
It is difficult to speak in generalities, but there are a few things I can say from experience about finding wrestling partners in Asia.
Language proficiency in the local language dramatically improved my chances at finding quality matches. I'm fluent in Japanese and that afforded me the ability to read online wrestling forums, join the gay wrestling social networking sites, etc. Also, as a white guy living long term in the area, it takes only a few matches with locals to establish your reputation within that subculture and group and the degree to which you can be trusted.
I do have wrestling friends in Japan who are reasonably proficient in English and may actively look for travelers, visitors or expats to meet up with, but they are a minority. Meeting up with strangers for a very intimate act - especially one with a sexual fetish component - isn't something that most people would feel confident about doing in their second language I think.
Perhaps there is also a word to be said about sexuality. Gay sexuality in Asia is certainly more subdued than in the West, but the the diversity of sexual subcultures - like wrestling, etc. - isn't any less I think. I would say that nearly all of my long-term wrestling buddies are to some degree "out" about their sexuality. It was easier because we shared that aspect and could also talk about the general gay community in Japan outside of wrestling. This made for more genuine friendships.
I had a space with mats at my condo in Osaka and used to have great fun with wrestling gatherings. I preferred to host three or four wrestlers to my place for an afternoon of different partners and matches.
The wrestlers who I met who self-identified as either straight or bisexual were more problematic or challenging. You have to establish where to wrestle, and not everyone might be comfortable checking into the "love hotels" for short couple of hour stays with a foreigner. Then there is the question of establishing just what level of eroticism is ok in matches with men who don't self-identify as gay.
I can tell you that among my Japanese wrestling friends - some enjoy wrestling with foreign guys, but others have very little interest. You can attribute that to whatever you like - racial preference, compatibility in terms of body size, etc. Like anyone - anywhere - preference comes into play for "underground" meetings because as you said in your original post - if you want a submission match there are easier, more orthodox clubs to participate in.
In a funny way, I found the best way to find matches in Japan was the same way you might find a new job. Talk to people and share info. If you have met someone who you got along with in a match, take your ipad with you and scan the profiles on this site and the others. Swap stories about other matches you had with members here and make suggestions for wrestlers that he might like to meet. Ask him to show you other localized language sites related to underground wrestling and see if he can make suggestions or referrals. Better yet, suggest meeting up for a tag-team match or a group get-together.
Though there are quite a few guys listed here in Hong Kong, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore etc ... I've found it hard to find opponents. Timewasters aside, there just seems to be little response or action from those listed here. Is it an Asian face thing? In that Asians avoid confrontation. Even when it's an offer of a friendly meet - there is still no action. Much the same goes for some of the Caucasions listed too. I can get my grappling fix at mainstream MMA or BJJ clubs, but underground wrestling is what I'm into. So come on guys, what's the problem? Is it a lingo thing? (Of course, this doesn't apply wrestleboyjoey, that mean Manila thriller). Apart from that feud, Hong Kong and much of Asia seems to be asleep. This is a wake-up call, and the same goes for guys passing through HK
Wrestleboyjoey (139)
2013-03-04 16:12Hmmm since I had been name-checked here, I guess I should put in my two cents worth. Osakarob has very good points. For me, it all boils down to a matter of personal preference. Each wrestler chooses whom he wants to wrestle. I go to places with a lot of wrestlers, such as London or Berlin, and still I end up with few matches, sometimes none. But I don't generalize about Western characteristics. Simply put, I am just not their type to wrestle. For each new wrestler that I manage to meet, there were a lot more rejections or ignored messages. So don't worry, this does not just happen in Asia. It is the same everywhere.
osakarob (81 )
2013-02-23 19:25You write, "I can get my grappling fix at mainstream MMA or BJJ clubs, but underground wrestling is what I'm into."
I'm not sure what you mean by "underground". Care to elaborate?
celtwrestle (46 )
2013-02-24 06:31(w odpowiedzi na)
Rob, meeting opponents online and arranging somewhere private to fight is more or less 'underground'. The word also gives it a more adventurous, edgy feel; such as underground music etc. I didn't actually mean we'd climb down into a tunnel and scrap!! Anyway, I hope to get over to Osaka before long. How is the wrestling scene there?
osakarob (81 )
2013-02-24 08:56(w odpowiedzi na)
I lived in Osaka for sixteen years, but moved back to the US about five years ago. My experience with Japan's "underground" wrestling community was, generally speaking, quite positive. I've got some friends there who I have wrestled with -on and off- for a decade or more.
It is difficult to speak in generalities, but there are a few things I can say from experience about finding wrestling partners in Asia.
Language proficiency in the local language dramatically improved my chances at finding quality matches. I'm fluent in Japanese and that afforded me the ability to read online wrestling forums, join the gay wrestling social networking sites, etc. Also, as a white guy living long term in the area, it takes only a few matches with locals to establish your reputation within that subculture and group and the degree to which you can be trusted.
I do have wrestling friends in Japan who are reasonably proficient in English and may actively look for travelers, visitors or expats to meet up with, but they are a minority. Meeting up with strangers for a very intimate act - especially one with a sexual fetish component - isn't something that most people would feel confident about doing in their second language I think.
Perhaps there is also a word to be said about sexuality. Gay sexuality in Asia is certainly more subdued than in the West, but the the diversity of sexual subcultures - like wrestling, etc. - isn't any less I think. I would say that nearly all of my long-term wrestling buddies are to some degree "out" about their sexuality. It was easier because we shared that aspect and could also talk about the general gay community in Japan outside of wrestling. This made for more genuine friendships.
I had a space with mats at my condo in Osaka and used to have great fun with wrestling gatherings. I preferred to host three or four wrestlers to my place for an afternoon of different partners and matches.
The wrestlers who I met who self-identified as either straight or bisexual were more problematic or challenging. You have to establish where to wrestle, and not everyone might be comfortable checking into the "love hotels" for short couple of hour stays with a foreigner. Then there is the question of establishing just what level of eroticism is ok in matches with men who don't self-identify as gay.
I can tell you that among my Japanese wrestling friends - some enjoy wrestling with foreign guys, but others have very little interest. You can attribute that to whatever you like - racial preference, compatibility in terms of body size, etc. Like anyone - anywhere - preference comes into play for "underground" meetings because as you said in your original post - if you want a submission match there are easier, more orthodox clubs to participate in.
In a funny way, I found the best way to find matches in Japan was the same way you might find a new job. Talk to people and share info. If you have met someone who you got along with in a match, take your ipad with you and scan the profiles on this site and the others. Swap stories about other matches you had with members here and make suggestions for wrestlers that he might like to meet. Ask him to show you other localized language sites related to underground wrestling and see if he can make suggestions or referrals. Better yet, suggest meeting up for a tag-team match or a group get-together.
celtwrestle (46 )
2013-01-26 09:17Though there are quite a few guys listed here in Hong Kong, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore etc ... I've found it hard to find opponents. Timewasters aside, there just seems to be little response or action from those listed here. Is it an Asian face thing? In that Asians avoid confrontation. Even when it's an offer of a friendly meet - there is still no action. Much the same goes for some of the Caucasions listed too. I can get my grappling fix at mainstream MMA or BJJ clubs, but underground wrestling is what I'm into. So come on guys, what's the problem? Is it a lingo thing? (Of course, this doesn't apply wrestleboyjoey, that mean Manila thriller). Apart from that feud, Hong Kong and much of Asia seems to be asleep. This is a wake-up call, and the same goes for guys passing through HK